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View Full Version : Standard VS. Automatic



BooBoo
04-02-2013, 08:32 PM
When I origianly got my 67 I wanted it to be a hot street machine , 60s style . I,ve never drivin this car yet , still in the restoration process . To me a muscle car really needs a 4 speed . I dont know what kind of auto it has in it , maybe a 727 . How well do these perform ? I dont want to go with a shift kit , If i use it I,ll just leave it stock with a cammed 383 . So do you guys like the auto enough to where tracking down and spending the money for 4 speed stuff aint worth it ? Thanks . BooBoo

ws27
04-02-2013, 10:10 PM
To each his own. Personally I love standard transmissions. I special ordered my 94 Ram with a 5 speed, my big truck with a 7 speed, and 5:o of my cars are 4 speeds. Heck, if I could figure out how to put a clutch pedal in my E350, I would have.

For me, not only do I love being in complete control, but I also love the simplicity of a standard transmission. Autos have a finite life even if you take very good care of them.

Oh and the fun toopowershift.

67r/t4speeder
04-02-2013, 10:21 PM
I agree with Rich, nothing like driving some country roads going through the gears.

theman440
04-03-2013, 12:21 AM
Automatics are fun too!

ws27
04-03-2013, 12:52 PM
Automatics are fun too!
OK, Jeff, with your experience, I'll give you that. They certainly are faster on the strip.rofl

theman440
04-03-2013, 02:22 PM
Nothin' cooler than when I hammer the throttle and that 727 bangs second and barks the tires!

65rbdodge
04-03-2013, 02:23 PM
if you car is a 383 it has a 727, to my knowledge 904`s never came behind a big block. i have an 400/727 in my dart with a griner(spelling?) manual valve body, i can say it pretty fun to drive and shifts really hard. i feel in control more with the manual valve body almost like a 4 speed.

theman440
04-03-2013, 02:28 PM
Another cool thing about a reverse manual 727 is that there is no engine braking in first gear. I also dig how the engine revs up really high before the car moves when you have a high-stall convertor

BooBoo
04-03-2013, 04:57 PM
Nothin' cooler than when I hammer the throttle and that 727 bangs second and barks the tires! Oh ,,,, well let me re-think this . I didnt know the automatics had that solid of a shift . Barking the tires in 2nd gear , is that with a stock trans ?

theman440
04-03-2013, 05:15 PM
Oh ,,,, well let me re-think this . I didnt know the automatics had that solid of a shift . Barking the tires in 2nd gear , is that with a stock trans ?

Yes it is possible for a stock trans to do it, my Dad's '70 (4-door) Newport used to do it. Chrysler softened up the shifts on the later transmissions though. Hell my 130K mile bone stock '64 330 with a 318/727 would do it. Best thing to do with 'em is to put in a Trans-Go shift kit. They are cheap and easy to do but the trans must be in good shape (not wore out)

BooBoo
04-03-2013, 05:19 PM
So with a stock converter how radical of a cam have you seen people use ?

theman440
04-03-2013, 07:20 PM
So with a stock converter how radical of a cam have you seen people use ? A "RV" cam is your limit with a stock converter IMO

BooBoo
04-03-2013, 07:37 PM
if you car is a 383 it has a 727, to my knowledge 904`s never came behind a big block. i have an 400/727 in my dart with a griner(spelling?) manual valve body, i can say it pretty fun to drive and shifts really hard. i feel in control more with the manual valve body almost like a 4 speed.Did you have to add anything else other then the manual valve body to get it to shift hard ?

BooBoo
04-03-2013, 07:40 PM
Another cool thing about a reverse manual 727 is that there is no engine braking in first gear. I also dig how the engine revs up really high before the car moves when you have a high-stall convertorPlease explain . I dont know what you mean by engine braking in 1st gear . I understand 18 wheeler engine braking . Are you saying the trans ACTS like it has a stall converter ? Thanks . BooBoo

theman440
04-04-2013, 12:51 AM
Please explain . I dont know what you mean by engine braking in 1st gear . I understand 18 wheeler engine braking . Are you saying the trans ACTS like it has a stall converter ? Thanks . BooBoo What it means is that when your in first gear and you let off the gas the engine free wheels (trans does not drag engine rpm down)

BooBoo
04-04-2013, 05:50 AM
Oh , OK . What about when your sittin there ideling ? is the car trying to pull off or do you have to bring the RPM up like a stall converter ? If so about how much RPM is needed to get the car moving ? I,m just trying to figure out if I can use a radical cam with that set up .

65rbdodge
04-04-2013, 10:52 AM
let me clear up the engine braking in first gear. some have it and some dont. to get technical, it called "low band apply" here is what happens, say you are driving and want to slow down using the trans. you manually shift into 2nd gear, you slow down some, and then shift into first. without low band apply it will be like shifting into neutral, with low band apply, you will continue to slow down. without low band apply as you are coasting and the engine is ideling like you are in neutral, you hit the gas and the engine revs until it catches up to the speed of the car the the car takes off(this is bad for the trans.) as far as i know griner valve bodies have low band apply and cheeta does not.

BooBoo
04-04-2013, 11:00 AM
OK I got ya , thanks .

67r/t4speeder
04-04-2013, 12:29 PM
Just wondering why you would not want to not a have low band apply?
Something to do with drag racing, keeping RPMs up on a burnout?

BooBoo
04-04-2013, 12:37 PM
Just wondering why you would not want to not a have low band apply?
Something to do with drag racing, keeping RPMs up on a burnout?If you're asking me , I want to use a cam with a real choppy idle . So I'll probley need something that acts like that , like a higher stall then a stock converter . BooBoo

Sedanman67
04-05-2013, 09:06 PM
If you ask me, you're going about it all wrong by picking the cam for how h\teh engine will idle. A well sorted out car has every single part chosen for how well they will work together. I got a pile of cast-oof garbage 318 to go 14.62 @92 mph by making sure there was not a single piece that was too radical for the others to deal with. I had NO MONEY in the engine or the trans or the rear. The engine had probably 100,000 miles and the original head gaskets (valves and springs factory installed and never touched. That combo would surely have been able to break into the 13's with a stock rebuild and a valve job. Run the wrong cam and you will HATE your car. My advice is to call Comp Cams and tell them EXACTLY what you have for parts and let them recommend a cam.

Sedanman67
04-05-2013, 09:10 PM
Low gear band apply has nothing to do with the transmissions abilitiy to deal with a lumpy cam. Go to the dragstrip and look at how many cars are running automatics vs. manuals. It is fairly easy but not cheap to get an automatic to live a happy life in a very fast car (8 second 1,500 hp range). I built a 727 for a frinds Dart that made over 200 low 10 high 9 second passes.

67r/t4speeder
04-05-2013, 10:26 PM
Just wondering why you would not want to not a have low band apply?
Something to do with drag racing, keeping RPMs up on a burnout?

Sorry wrong question wrong time didn't mean too get off track here just wondering

BooBoo
04-06-2013, 09:22 AM
If you ask me, you're going about it all wrong by picking the cam for how h\teh engine will idle. A well sorted out car has every single part chosen for how well they will work together. I got a pile of cast-oof garbage 318 to go 14.62 @92 mph by making sure there was not a single piece that was too radical for the others to deal with. I had NO MONEY in the engine or the trans or the rear. The engine had probably 100,000 miles and the original head gaskets (valves and springs factory installed and never touched. That combo would surely have been able to break into the 13's with a stock rebuild and a valve job. Run the wrong cam and you will HATE your car. My advice is to call Comp Cams and tell them EXACTLY what you have for parts and let them recommend a cam. I'm not using a radical cam just because I like the sound it makes . It will be one of many hi per parts i'll be using . I like high HP engines and like using the HP . Hope I cleared that up for you . BooBoo

theman440
04-07-2013, 01:10 AM
Just wondering why you would not want to not a have low band apply?
Something to do with drag racing, keeping RPMs up on a burnout?

Actually low band apply can be a good thing - it helps protect the sprag. Drawback is that you can have 1-2 shift timing issues, usually overlap (trans in 1st & 2nd at the same time briefly) If you don't have low band apply there can be no overlap. Try this - if you have a stock trans, put in drive and accelerate - notice the clean 1-2 shift. Then try and shift the trans manually - you will notice the difference...overlap.

67r/t4speeder
04-07-2013, 10:53 AM
Actually low band apply can be a good thing - it helps protect the sprag. Drawback is that you can have 1-2 shift timing issues, usually overlap (trans in 1st & 2nd at the same time briefly) If you don't have low band apply there can be no overlap. Try this - if you have a stock trans, put in drive and accelerate - notice the clean 1-2 shift. Then try and shift the trans manually - you will notice the difference...overlap.
Now I understand thanks Jeff

Sedanman67
04-07-2013, 06:50 PM
I'm not using a radical cam just because I like the sound it makes . It will be one of many hi per parts i'll be using . I like high HP engines and like using the HP . Hope I cleared that up for you . BooBoo

My bad, I must have misjudged your engine building skills. Usually when someone gets to such a high level as yourself they prety much understand how a heater blower circuit and a manual valve body work. I'm sorry I missed something. What exactly is a "high perfromance" engine? 400hp? 1,400hp? Pump gas, E-85, or race gas? How fast? 12 seconds? 9? 8? Please enlighten me. I have so much to learn.

BooBoo
04-07-2013, 09:12 PM
My bad, I must have misjudged your engine building skills. Usually when someone gets to such a high level as yourself they prety much understand how a heater blower circuit and a manual valve body work. I'm sorry I missed something. What exactly is a "high perfromance" engine? 400hp? 1,400hp? Pump gas, E-85, or race gas? How fast? 12 seconds? 9? 8? Please enlighten me. I have so much to learn.Low 15s in a 3/8 mile nothing but motor . Now I didnt say anything to insult you in anyway shape or form . I dont argue over the internet so you'll have to troll for someone else . If I,ve done something wrong I'll be more then happy to let the moderator correct me which will then be followed up with an apology ,,,,,,,,,,,,,if I'm deemed wrong . Thanks . BooBoo

Piper
04-07-2013, 10:40 PM
Gents, dont turn my board into a circus

I am not playing cop, no Pm'ing mods and asking us to intervene

figure it out and move on

all that i ask is for mutual respect here

understood?

carry on

67r/t4speeder
04-10-2013, 11:16 PM
So booboo, have you had a bad experience with shift kits since you say you wouldn't want one?

BooBoo
04-11-2013, 05:50 AM
Back in my youger days I rode in a couple cars that had them , but never owned one . I remember they were fun . I sure havnt ruled one out , just checkin all my options . I,ve been a chevy guy most my life and standard trans were easy to come by . I,m finding it alot different with chrysler parts . I always wanted a 67 . Now that I got one I want it to be rite on the money if ya know what I mean . But yea I,d use a shift kit . Thanks . BooBoo

67440Dodge
04-11-2013, 07:56 AM
They are starting to repop some of the parts (linkages, pedal assy's, etc) now. Brewers sells a complete kit now to do it..

Racer Brown
04-11-2013, 11:57 AM
They are starting to repop some of the parts (linkages, pedal assy's, etc) now. Brewers sells a complete kit now to do it.. You know what I like!!powershift

R/T XTC
04-11-2013, 09:18 PM
Holeshot anyone? you know what I vote for

df68383
04-11-2013, 10:55 PM
I bought my Super Bee new. With the stock tires, it sure did bark the tires in second gear, and I did not have to get on it real hard. I put on better tires when it was three weeks old. It broke loose when I dropped back into "passing" (second) gear on the Interstate at about 50mph, it was spooky. Back in the '60's drag race days, I think that the cars with 727s, after some experimenting, would beat the 4 speeds, they were all COOL!

383bee
04-18-2013, 10:38 PM
Holeshot anyone? you know what I vote for
I noticed your tach.looking to mount one in my bee.how did you mount it to the column?trying to figure out something that looks ok and doesn't tear up the column.yours looks good from pic.

4264door
04-18-2013, 10:49 PM
383bee, in the past I have used and seen used regular screw clamps to hold down the tachometer to the steering column, but....the inside of the screw clamp ring had that felt material people use to isolate glass or pottery items from scratching the wooden tables they were displayed on....know what I mean? It is a felt product with a glue on backing. I have also seen these clamps isolated with white medical tape and that stuff is really sticky but durable. The redneck way would be to stick some black electricians tape inside the clamp ring but that looks ugly. The whole idea being trying to save the paint on the steering column from scraping away, which is REALLY butt fugly! Just a thought, hope it helps some?

383bee
04-19-2013, 03:36 PM
yeah that does help.i really want to put a good tic toc tach in but my clock has been rebuilt and keeps perfect time so i really dont want to spend 3 or 400 just to get a tach.thinking about a smaller one on the column.i'll figure out something to isolate it.

R/T XTC
04-21-2013, 12:57 PM
I noticed your tach.looking to mount one in my bee.how did you mount it to the column?trying to figure out something that looks ok and doesn't tear up the column.yours looks good from pic.

The Tic tok tach is so inaccurate, now they rebuild and re produce them I should look into them, I mounted the SUN tach to the column with two black ZIP TIES( Quick and easy)

67440Dodge
04-21-2013, 01:09 PM
A dryer vent clamp from Homeless Despot did the trick for me..

383bee
04-21-2013, 01:24 PM
I ended up with a hose clamp that because of the column shift ring you can hardly see.i do think I'll paint it black though.i just didnt want a big monster tach that took over the dash area.the smaller one worked just fine.

R/T XTC
04-21-2013, 03:49 PM
I'd rather scrach the column a tadd than blow a hole in the side of the engine block